Friday, April 23, 2010

NZ Vegan Podcast Episode 55 - Domestication, Abortion and some topics for future episode


This week I talk about my new job, the new member of my family, domestication and why I am more and more opposed to it every day, and I talk about the irrelevancy of the abortion issue to animal rights.
Here is a link to the "Elizabeth Collins cont'd" part of my "profile" from my new job (scroll down):

This is the link to the debate on Michael Medved's radio show between Gary L.  Francione and Wesley J.Smith:
This is a link to the article requesting people to call in next time:

These are the links to the discussion about promoting veganism: FIrstly the original article by Stephanie Ernst that started the discussion off:
Then Mylène's article:
Gary Francione's twitlonger: - (You have to belong to LiveVegan on facebook to read this) or you can read it here:
Ditto this one, Dave Langlois twitlonger: - or you can read it here:
Here is a link to LiveVegan's new PODCAST on YouTube where this is also discussed:
And Vincent Guihan discusses it here also:

Finally, meet Zsebi (she put herself there, she is looking for comfort always, because normally she would be surrounded by furry, purring momma and brothers and sisters).


  1. Hi Elizabeth,

    my iTunes subscription to your podcast got me the radio show debate you mention, but not your recent episode.
    Did you mix up the files or is it just me and iTunes?

    I’m listening to it from the link above now.
    Thanks, as always, for all your efforts!

  2. Aargh! Thanks Martin. It is because I don't know what the heck I am doing. lol. I put the link in the title, and then if I put any other links in the description sometimes (not always so I just don't know why) iTunes links to that instead. Like if I put a link to a photo sometimes it will go there instead. I don't know. I have never changed the way I do things, I am not sure if it is a glitch. What I have tried to do is add a link to the podcast inside the text description. Hopefull that will solve the problem. Someone else had problems downloading my last two episodes, but this is all beyond me. It's amazing I even managed to get them in iTunes at all lol.
    Thanks for letting me know Martin.

  3. OK that seemed to work. From now on I will add a "listen HERE" text linking to the podcast at the top of the description. Hopefully that will override any of these problems I have been having.

  4. hi
    i just listened to this your episode 55 yesterday and felt the urge to write you this
    me: philip from berlin(germ-any)

    i'm pretty provocative. i think it is necessary to make my point. and anything else wouldn't be my true feelings about the pet/domesticated animals-issue)

    you are inconsistent:
    i quote you from your PodcastEpisode55 apr10: 6:14minutes to 6:33

    (i decided to also quote the not-really-words because it's more to the truth(which we all should live for)
    "CLEANING CAGES at a cat-ary is ,em, helping those cats. em, and, ah, providing me with a job that, em, although it is part of the institiution of exploitating, haah(sigh), it's just hard to explain. anyway (next subject)

    i think if a welfarist would have said that, you would also have criticized this person

    i think you are "mind-boggling" "this drives me nuts" like you call them who criticize you in that.

    so your abolition means that aboliting cages is not included ?????????????
    you help the system of caged animals
    in that episode you are distracting from that fact
    abolition, in my notion of it, means no pets!, companion=pets(like in orwells 1984)
    i understand the longing to be so near in contact with to-be-loved cats
    you caring for cats, gary caring for dogs is a kind of specicism(i mean: loving one species more than others, showing more empathy for them
    i think that's the hardest part of becoming "ethical vegan/abolitionist" but it is consequent and sustainable and doesn't mean to have no conatct to animals at all. but this contact (if abolition would be present)
    would be truthful , not the human deciding about how this conatct would be like or having contrl over this situation. the animal will be same level EQUAL how we abolitionists expect from others to behave towards animals!
    these animals are dependent on you and means:
    the society is cruel to animals, so these animals are brought to "shelters/sanctuarys", the more cruelty the more ..
    and you are helping this system which still contains compulsion, captivity ,supporting organizations you yourself criticize in this episode but then you say, your part in that system ius ok
    abolition means !!!no cages!!!!
    all cages are equal
    with your message you express: some cages are more equal
    the animals you help "don't live" they just "survive", me myself have only "survived" most time of my life, the reason was that i (unconsciously) supported a system i wasn't at peace with

    abolition would mean (pet)cats, dogs ...... will live in the woods (again) that doesn't mean they would be seperated from us but that's their habitat, if they choose a humanlike one:ok. but letting them choose almost never happens.

  5. ..anything else means captivity&inconsistency
    you say "i hate domestication more than eva"
    but sanctuarys don't function to disdomesticate/renaturalize these animals which i think is possible but for most not
    so we have to face the truth that a lot will die,but maybe i'm too pessimistic.
    i would appreciate animals running around morely instead of humans over and
    overpopulating the earth till the next big global diesease? when i hear the newest counts i'm always shocked again harder than the time before.
    ..and animals being around(not only birds and insects like now) would have
    the best side-effects: cars would have to be more attentive, not so much insects
    (even in houses) because the food-circle make them being hunted again
    (i don't hate insects but they can get on somebodys nerves(the reason they are
    hated so much,i think even demonized, and called disgusting) but if there will be animals again
    who eat them naturally it will be much more fun, and insects' life will be more
    enjoyable too, not so boring just to live from human garbage
    of course this will mean dead animals lying around sometimes(more often) and
    seeing those "filthy hated scavengers" beeing more in public [instead of dead animals beeing thrown in the garbage: eaten anyway by maggots? which most people will find more disgusting only if it was in public and not rotting away in the garbage/ or beeing burned or burried(out of sight out of...) which will be more damaging to nature and has something religious]
    it will not only teach people what is real and what eating animals really means!thats my point
    they feel disgusted about things, and the same time they yre responsible for "things" to happen that are "there is no word for that,you know what i mean, in your podcast you expressed something similar "

    of course i'm not totally vegan, like you once said: there is no such thing
    i hope this kind of helps you
    i'm on your side so i thought i had to write you this and....blabla i hope you understand me
    i wrote gary something similar about his dogs (no reply, anything else would have been unrealistic, it was the first time i wrote,and i don't know if he has read the mail
    stay strong at your stall with your friends!!

  6. some more thoughts(not so different) that came later:
    for a pet a humans-flat/house is like a big cage looking out the window is like a prisoner looking out the "window". the pet-animal wants to get out that will easily be apparent
    ok with "crippled" animals it's sth else
    but why should they care for them animals who are against the society who "produces" such sad but real living beeings
    and so let them get rid of their burden?
    you say you're doing your job(with cats) as a redemption(act of paying off). but you haven't done that to them. the cruelty-industry produces so much
    crippled animals that all vegans on the world will never have the time and energy to care for them.and if someone would reply:but we should do as much as we can, i'd say:
    we can't care, it's too much, we're NOT responsible. we should put all our free energy-ressources to change this system(like you do promoting veganism but at the same time you're helping in sanctuarys will only (effect) help the existing system: they can think: oh, there are these people caring for the animals we have put into their misery, that's good for us and they'll stay busy for a loooong time. and i really think gary's "theory" applied to this issue leads to that conclusion. otherwise it's inconsistent

    you say you support sth that you aren't content with: minute15:52 (these cats) are cramped into this very beautiful and very large facility but for cats it's really not that great and so we have to clip the tips of the paws off to prevent cor..... scratches and things like that
    i think every vegan will remind that of chickens having their beak cut to prevent ....
    you are supporting sth that i wouldn`t call ethical vegan. the point: what would happen to these cats if you weren't caring for them? fight for their brothers and sisters to have better lives in real freedom. empathy for sanctuary-pets can never
    ever replace freedom.every cat in nature (even crippled ones) is happier than sanctuary-cats living in a artificial pseudo-secure place. that still is domestication which you say you hate more than ever
    i'm done i'm still on your side but i can't listen to the rest of this episode
    i'm just eating sth that contains chipped dried bananas that contain honey(i bought that). so i'm not consistent too!
    but it was cheap. it is yummy even without the bananas but the shop only has it with honey-bananas! i'm eating them anyway! i'm not consistent, i thought to not eat the bananas and throw them away? to me:be consistent would mean not to buy that no more.and to make the effort to find sth better that doesn`t support sth i swore i wouldn't